So guys, we're all done. To be honest, I was expecting more of an intense, meaningful ending. I feel like the whole melancholy, over-drama of the prison scene took away some of the serious meaning I was looking for though. But don't get me wrong, I liked it. I'd like to focus in on Margareta's character (I'll call her Gretel because its shorter). I think that she is a really interesting character to demonstrate the power of good vs. evil / light vs. dark in this play. On the one hand, she is made to seem good: she is young, innocent and beautiful. After seeing how much Faust creeps on her, she seems innocent and you want to side with her. She had an unplanned pregnancy, which draws pity as well in some ways. Especially in the final scene in the prison, I felt a lot of pity for her (what with her whole family dying and baby drowning and all). She recognizes and fears the evil in Meph. And most significantly perhaps, the Voice from above on the last pg. says "[she] Is redeemed on high." (or at least I think the voice was referring to her.) On the otherrr hand, there is a whole lot about Gretel that is on the evil side. Undeniably, she's a bit of a slut, to be kind. It was partially her fault that she got pregnant. She killed her mother because, selfishly, she wanted her mother knocked out so she could sleep around with Faust. Meph's last line, on pg. 197, says "She is condemned to die." As we know, there is an awful lot of good-evil theme going on in the whole novel, in particular inside Faust. In a more external way, Gretel also serves as a vehicle for Faust's inner struggle-- creep on her or restrain himself? Win the pact with Meph or decide he'd like to stay on Earth with her? So basically, Gretel is just a great character to analyze with mind to the good-evil battle in the play. I'm not sure if she represents one way or the other fully, or if she is meant by Goethe to function just as I said: as a vehicle for, and highlighter of, Faust's inner struggle. I'd love to hear anyone else's thoughts on this.
He sold his soul to the Devil and Meph payed for it with the life of an innocent girl whom Faust loved. The Walpurgis night dream scene seemed to me like a trip down to hell and everyones perspectives of hell. The learned and the common man, the idealist and the realist. I really liked this because even though Meph was the Devil and wanted Faust and his soul he seemed at first to want to teach Faust a lesson. Goethe portrays Meph as a very intelligent being, if not a bit misguided at times (a.k.a. witches) and someone has to rule the underworld right. The last dream scene reminded me of when Odysseus has to go down to hell and sees his mother and fellow sailors. For me it was Faust this intelligent person seeing all these other thinkers their, and for the first time i think Faust realizes the fullest extent of what he has done.
I think that the central message of this book is that one shouldn't look for everything and want to know everything because knowing that means you know about all the unneccisary evils as well and it takes away innocence and mortality. This sort of reminded me of Lion King and the forbidden part of the landscape that Mufasa tells Simba not to go to and he does anyway. In this story knowledge really does lead to ones downfall.
Alright, so let me first start by asking... is Gretel's baby dead? Well, no. A better question would be, what is with Gretel's line at the end of page 194: "Save your child!/ Follow the way/ down by the brook/... Quickly, your hand!/ It gropes for the bank,/ With fluttering limbs,/ Save it, oh, save it!" My guess is at this point she is just getting delirious, because after this she starts getting very hysterical. However, I was confused none-the-less. Now, the ending... I will say, Ms. Coppens, you better tell us what happens in part II because that was the lamest ending I've ever read. I agree with Sarah, it definitely was not meaningful, although I'm pretty sure it was dramatic enough to be intense, possibly too much so. That being said, Gretel did have some lines that really drove home the idea of redemption and the forgiveness of god. She says, "Or know you not the creature that you free?" implying the bad that she had done, but on the very last page, she was taken into God's protection, saying "Into God's hands my trembling soul I give." I thought that was really interesting, because I keep hoping that Faust will end up back on God's side, and the fact that Gretel was saved from the devil's influence gave me hope. What I'm still wondering though, is what she's being executed for. Is it having an illegitimate child? Because in the Scarlet Letter, Hester wasn't killed, she was just shamed. And did Gretel kill her own child, or did they take it from her? The child part was honestly the most confusing. On a separate note, let's discuss the Walpurgis Night's Dream Scene which I absolutely loved, although not so much as a part of the play. I thought it was a great satirical commentary on society, although I wasn't quite sure what it had to do with the play. I felt more like it was just thrown in there as an example of devilry, but Faust wasn't really in the scene at all, so it was hard for me to picture how it was affecting him. I really enjoyed the mention of the crickets so many times in that scene though, especially when one woman refers to all the people gathered as insects (i think); Xenia says, "We insects come a-flitting" (183). Over all Faust part one was actually really enjoyable. Except for the first like 40 pages, it was filled with action and love and actually really stuff we hear about and see almost every day in TV shows and stuff. It's almost comical to think that in Goethe's time all the stuff we see as almost normality now was thought to be brought on by the devil's influence. Although, one could also argue that some things haven't changed, like the love girls have for gossiping about illegitimate pregnancies. -Victoria
Ok. So I agree with Sarah and Victoria- the ending of part one was a let down. I understand there is still another part to the play, but it would be nice to know the final status of Faust's soul. As far as the baby goes I’m pretty sure its dead/Margareta is insanely ranting in the last scene. She says "My mother, by my hand, lies dead;/dead is my child that i did drown." (193)
I thought the most interesting thing about the play was the timeless humor. Although it most definitely is a tragedy, Goethe laces his lines with comedy. Sometimes it appears as sarcasm, which is seen in the first scene when Meph talks to God. He is mockingly gracious towards God when he says “It’s decent in he first of gentlemen/to speak so friendly, even to the devil.” (42) I think the devil in general is amusing. He is not what you would expect a stereotypical devil to be like. He even says “Much water's passed the bridges since we met. / Society's improved at every level,/And culture spreads now, even to the Devil./ Gone is the spook that filled the North with awe,/ Out-moded are the horns, and tail and claw./ Touching the foot, with which I can't dispense,/ My social circle might well take offense;/ And so, like many fashionable lads,/ I falsify my calves by using pads.” (116-117) I feel like that line could have been written today by a writer trying to mock the devil. At other times the humor is more apparent- like when the devil appears as a poodle, or in the tavern scene with the drunken singing. Others times Goethe is mocking society or using his work as a satire. I agree with Victoria, the play of Walpurgis Night’s Dream is a satire of the society at that time (that does kind of have little to do with Faust’s story). On page 185 Goethe pokes fun at the beliefs of Dogmatists, Idealists, Realists, Supernaturalists, and Sceptics (to name a few). Once again, many of the insights Goethe makes about these characters are timeless, they apply to the beliefs of the groups still today.
I completely agree about the ending. I'll try to fill you in on Part II the best I can, but I think it's interesting that Faust Part One is most often read alone, without Part Two.
I guess that Part Two is considered by amny to be the most difficult German text to both comprehend and analyze, and it is often not taught in German schools, while Faust Part One is widely taught.
DO you think Part One can stand alone with the ending as it is?
the final thign i have to say is by the mentioning of this quote: "while here we sit in security, indeed it is proverbially true, from greater worlds we fashion small ones too," (174)
said by meph, i feel like htis quote jsut stood out so much, saying how even though everyone live sin teh same world, in a way everyone creates their own litlle worlds in their own minds, decidng whos a part of it and who isnt. because of this, i feel like thats why all the characters came off to be so incredibly naive, because their orlds were so elclosed and limited that they were too blind to see what was really there.
I agree with everyone else that the ending was sort of a letdown; I was not impressed with Margareta's production at the end.
But throughout the final part of this book, I thought that the connections to nature, the supernatural, and how these were described, were very interesting. From the very beginning of the blog, when Faust and Margareta are discussing religion and God, Faust relates nature, emotion, and the supernatural as he says to her on page 153, "Is not life teeming / Around the head and heart of you, / Weaving eternal mysteries / Seen and unseen, even at your side? [...] To give it: feeling's surely all. / Names are but noise and smoke, / Obscuring heavenly light." Faust effectively weaves together instinct and emotion into nature, clearly showing how great of an effect it has had on his thinking regarding the supernatural. Lots of Romantic elements. Another place in the text where he expresses his emotions through nature is on page 167 as he says to Mephisto, "I love to thread the giant valleys' maze, / Then climb the fell from whose majesdtic height / The torrent falls in ceaseless silvery flight: / Thus beauty gives the zest to travelling days. / Already through the birches steals the spring, / And even quivers soft in sombre firs, / Shall not our limbs then feel the quickening?" Nature obviously resonates very strongly with Faust, as he constantly references it in regards to his emotions, and he uses it quite often to express how he's feeling about various situations. Finally, on page 169, during Faust's and Mephisto's climb up to witness Walpurgis Night, Faust, Mephisto, and Will-O'-The-Wisp all recite a long passage describing that which surrounds them. It's certainly nature, but it's also accented by traces of the supernatural, seeing as they are about to witness a gathering of witches. For example, at the end of this long passage, they say together, "And the swarming / Rodents run, their squadrons forming, / Black and blonde, through moss and heather, / While the glow-worms paint the weather, / In their corwded ranks providing / Crazy escort for our guiding. / Nay but tell me, in our traces / Are we standing or advancing? / All is whirling, swimming, dancing, / Fell and forest, full of faces, / Mock at us. The wild-fires, flying, / Menace in their multiplying." This supernatural confusion amidst the natural elements ties together nicely as they approach the obviously supernatural witches.
Also, kind of as a side note to all of that, I was thinking that maybe there is significance to how often Faust relates nature, the supernatural, and his emotions. He is clearly dealing with the supernatural in the form of Mephisto, the devil, but he constantly comes back to those natural elements, and it's obvious how strongly they affect him emotionally. Is it possible that this is him trying to show that he is still trying to be human and good, another example of his internal conflict between good and evil?
PS Sorry for posting this morning, my internet wouldn't work last night!!
Great ideas withe the Adam and Eve connections...also think back to the inscription in the young scholar's book. I guess knowledge does always have a consequence, a nd sometimes a negative one. Also, interesting quotes about worlds...in a way, reminds me of Miranda's "oh brave new world" quote. Both she and Faust stood on the edge of new worlds being opened to them.
Kayleigh- great ideas on nature, supernatural, and emotion in Faust. You selected some beautiful quotes!
Sarah- interesting connections with light/dark to Marg...how she begins inthe light of innocence and ends in the dark of dungeon facing execution...murder, guilt, insanity, oh my.
Katie- love the connections to Odysseus's trip to the underworld. Interesting that Odysseus sees Medusa there right before he flees- and so does Faust. Perhaps this is not a coincidence?
Ambika- Walpurgis as social commentary and the crickets connection- those old bugs are back again. Very good.
Finally, Matt, good idea about this not just being a story of a great man's downfall, but of the evil in all of mankind.
8 comments:
So guys, we're all done. To be honest, I was expecting more of an intense, meaningful ending. I feel like the whole melancholy, over-drama of the prison scene took away some of the serious meaning I was looking for though. But don't get me wrong, I liked it.
I'd like to focus in on Margareta's character (I'll call her Gretel because its shorter). I think that she is a really interesting character to demonstrate the power of good vs. evil / light vs. dark in this play.
On the one hand, she is made to seem good: she is young, innocent and beautiful. After seeing how much Faust creeps on her, she seems innocent and you want to side with her. She had an unplanned pregnancy, which draws pity as well in some ways. Especially in the final scene in the prison, I felt a lot of pity for her (what with her whole family dying and baby drowning and all). She recognizes and fears the evil in Meph. And most significantly perhaps, the Voice from above on the last pg. says "[she] Is redeemed on high." (or at least I think the voice was referring to her.)
On the otherrr hand, there is a whole lot about Gretel that is on the evil side. Undeniably, she's a bit of a slut, to be kind. It was partially her fault that she got pregnant. She killed her mother because, selfishly, she wanted her mother knocked out so she could sleep around with Faust. Meph's last line, on pg. 197, says "She is condemned to die."
As we know, there is an awful lot of good-evil theme going on in the whole novel, in particular inside Faust. In a more external way, Gretel also serves as a vehicle for Faust's inner struggle-- creep on her or restrain himself? Win the pact with Meph or decide he'd like to stay on Earth with her?
So basically, Gretel is just a great character to analyze with mind to the good-evil battle in the play. I'm not sure if she represents one way or the other fully, or if she is meant by Goethe to function just as I said: as a vehicle for, and highlighter of, Faust's inner struggle. I'd love to hear anyone else's thoughts on this.
-Sarah
He sold his soul to the Devil and Meph payed for it with the life of an innocent girl whom Faust loved. The Walpurgis night dream scene seemed to me like a trip down to hell and everyones perspectives of hell. The learned and the common man, the idealist and the realist. I really liked this because even though Meph was the Devil and wanted Faust and his soul he seemed at first to want to teach Faust a lesson. Goethe portrays Meph as a very intelligent being, if not a bit misguided at times (a.k.a. witches) and someone has to rule the underworld right. The last dream scene reminded me of when Odysseus has to go down to hell and sees his mother and fellow sailors. For me it was Faust this intelligent person seeing all these other thinkers their, and for the first time i think Faust realizes the fullest extent of what he has done.
I think that the central message of this book is that one shouldn't look for everything and want to know everything because knowing that means you know about all the unneccisary evils as well and it takes away innocence and mortality. This sort of reminded me of Lion King and the forbidden part of the landscape that Mufasa tells Simba not to go to and he does anyway. In this story knowledge really does lead to ones downfall.
Katie
Alright, so let me first start by asking... is Gretel's baby dead? Well, no. A better question would be, what is with Gretel's line at the end of page 194: "Save your child!/ Follow the way/ down by the brook/... Quickly, your hand!/ It gropes for the bank,/ With fluttering limbs,/ Save it, oh, save it!" My guess is at this point she is just getting delirious, because after this she starts getting very hysterical. However, I was confused none-the-less.
Now, the ending... I will say, Ms. Coppens, you better tell us what happens in part II because that was the lamest ending I've ever read. I agree with Sarah, it definitely was not meaningful, although I'm pretty sure it was dramatic enough to be intense, possibly too much so. That being said, Gretel did have some lines that really drove home the idea of redemption and the forgiveness of god. She says, "Or know you not the creature that you free?" implying the bad that she had done, but on the very last page, she was taken into God's protection, saying "Into God's hands my trembling soul I give." I thought that was really interesting, because I keep hoping that Faust will end up back on God's side, and the fact that Gretel was saved from the devil's influence gave me hope. What I'm still wondering though, is what she's being executed for. Is it having an illegitimate child? Because in the Scarlet Letter, Hester wasn't killed, she was just shamed. And did Gretel kill her own child, or did they take it from her? The child part was honestly the most confusing.
On a separate note, let's discuss the Walpurgis Night's Dream Scene which I absolutely loved, although not so much as a part of the play. I thought it was a great satirical commentary on society, although I wasn't quite sure what it had to do with the play. I felt more like it was just thrown in there as an example of devilry, but Faust wasn't really in the scene at all, so it was hard for me to picture how it was affecting him. I really enjoyed the mention of the crickets so many times in that scene though, especially when one woman refers to all the people gathered as insects (i think); Xenia says, "We insects come a-flitting" (183).
Over all Faust part one was actually really enjoyable. Except for the first like 40 pages, it was filled with action and love and actually really stuff we hear about and see almost every day in TV shows and stuff. It's almost comical to think that in Goethe's time all the stuff we see as almost normality now was thought to be brought on by the devil's influence. Although, one could also argue that some things haven't changed, like the love girls have for gossiping about illegitimate pregnancies.
-Victoria
Ok. So I agree with Sarah and Victoria- the ending of part one was a let down. I understand there is still another part to the play, but it would be nice to know the final status of Faust's soul.
As far as the baby goes I’m pretty sure its dead/Margareta is insanely ranting in the last scene. She says "My mother, by my hand, lies dead;/dead is my child that i did drown." (193)
I thought the most interesting thing about the play was the timeless humor. Although it most definitely is a tragedy, Goethe laces his lines with comedy. Sometimes it appears as sarcasm, which is seen in the first scene when Meph talks to God. He is mockingly gracious towards God when he says “It’s decent in he first of gentlemen/to speak so friendly, even to the devil.” (42) I think the devil in general is amusing. He is not what you would expect a stereotypical devil to be like. He even says “Much water's passed the bridges since we met. / Society's improved at every level,/And culture spreads now, even to the Devil./ Gone is the spook that filled the North with awe,/ Out-moded are the horns, and tail and claw./ Touching the foot, with which I can't dispense,/ My social circle might well take offense;/ And so, like many fashionable lads,/ I falsify my calves by using pads.” (116-117) I feel like that line could have been written today by a writer trying to mock the devil.
At other times the humor is more apparent- like when the devil appears as a poodle, or in the tavern scene with the drunken singing. Others times Goethe is mocking society or using his work as a satire. I agree with Victoria, the play of Walpurgis Night’s Dream is a satire of the society at that time (that does kind of have little to do with Faust’s story). On page 185 Goethe pokes fun at the beliefs of Dogmatists, Idealists, Realists, Supernaturalists, and Sceptics (to name a few). Once again, many of the insights Goethe makes about these characters are timeless, they apply to the beliefs of the groups still today.
Ahhh! Why haven't more of you posted??
I completely agree about the ending. I'll try to fill you in on Part II the best I can, but I think it's interesting that Faust Part One is most often read alone, without Part Two.
I guess that Part Two is considered by amny to be the most difficult German text to both comprehend and analyze, and it is often not taught in German schools, while Faust Part One is widely taught.
DO you think Part One can stand alone with the ending as it is?
-Ms. C
I too agree with everyone else that the ending to this book was somewhat blasé. i expected something way more dramatic, i was maybe hoping for some light at the end of the rainbow type ending, but of course i was wrong. But soemthing throughout the whole book i did find extremely interesting has to do with the whole light vs. dark connection that sarah made in her post, except im going to use it in comparison to meph. Meph, even being the devil, still had a light/dark appearance throughout the whole novel. he was everything you expected himt o be as teh devil, but only more. He used his whit to trick people into trusting him, using his light side. using his evils he would constantly try to come off as the better person, the supposed good guy, but in the end he was just lying to everyone, and tricking them so that they would fall for his "charm". what bewildered me most throughout the whole story though was that everyone, every single character seemed to be so incredibly vulnerable, and that most all of them had fallen into meph's trap. i say shame on them, especially faust. didn't his mother ever tell him not to make a deal with the devil??
well along with that eing said, i jsut want to point out that when i got to the end of the book, i kind of had a "that's what you get" type attitude towards faust for selling his soul to the devil. i can't believe eh was so naive to think that he could beat out the devil, never finding pleasure in the world nor succumbing to his trickery. so when i got to Desolate Day, i just felt "it serves you right," and i wasn't feeling to remorseful hah.
along with faust's so called "lesson learned" the one major theme i felt like came out was some sort of ocnnection with adam and eve. there were many references throughout the book, and i feel like faust is adam, this vulnerable man whos been victimized. meph set the trap, and realed faust in, tricking him to want ot taste the forbidden fruit, and suffering for all eternity because of it.
--> "Once on a day i had a dream:an apple-tree was my delight. i saw two lovely apples gleam, and climbed, with rising appetite" (177)
this said by faust reminds me specifically of adam and eve, where this opportuntiy with thedevil is the apple, and faust accepts the deal jsut as adam picks the apple.
the final thign i have to say is by the mentioning of this quote:
"while here we sit in security, indeed it is proverbially true, from greater worlds we fashion small ones too," (174)
said by meph, i feel like htis quote jsut stood out so much, saying how even though everyone live sin teh same world, in a way everyone creates their own litlle worlds in their own minds, decidng whos a part of it and who isnt. because of this, i feel like thats why all the characters came off to be so incredibly naive, because their orlds were so elclosed and limited that they were too blind to see what was really there.
I agree with everyone else that the ending was sort of a letdown; I was not impressed with Margareta's production at the end.
But throughout the final part of this book, I thought that the connections to nature, the supernatural, and how these were described, were very interesting. From the very beginning of the blog, when Faust and Margareta are discussing religion and God, Faust relates nature, emotion, and the supernatural as he says to her on page 153, "Is not life teeming / Around the head and heart of you, / Weaving eternal mysteries / Seen and unseen, even at your side? [...] To give it: feeling's surely all. / Names are but noise and smoke, / Obscuring heavenly light." Faust effectively weaves together instinct and emotion into nature, clearly showing how great of an effect it has had on his thinking regarding the supernatural. Lots of Romantic elements. Another place in the text where he expresses his emotions through nature is on page 167 as he says to Mephisto, "I love to thread the giant valleys' maze, / Then climb the fell from whose majesdtic height / The torrent falls in ceaseless silvery flight: / Thus beauty gives the zest to travelling days. / Already through the birches steals the spring, / And even quivers soft in sombre firs, / Shall not our limbs then feel the quickening?" Nature obviously resonates very strongly with Faust, as he constantly references it in regards to his emotions, and he uses it quite often to express how he's feeling about various situations. Finally, on page 169, during Faust's and Mephisto's climb up to witness Walpurgis Night, Faust, Mephisto, and Will-O'-The-Wisp all recite a long passage describing that which surrounds them. It's certainly nature, but it's also accented by traces of the supernatural, seeing as they are about to witness a gathering of witches. For example, at the end of this long passage, they say together, "And the swarming / Rodents run, their squadrons forming, / Black and blonde, through moss and heather, / While the glow-worms paint the weather, / In their corwded ranks providing / Crazy escort for our guiding. / Nay but tell me, in our traces / Are we standing or advancing? / All is whirling, swimming, dancing, / Fell and forest, full of faces, / Mock at us. The wild-fires, flying, / Menace in their multiplying." This supernatural confusion amidst the natural elements ties together nicely as they approach the obviously supernatural witches.
Also, kind of as a side note to all of that, I was thinking that maybe there is significance to how often Faust relates nature, the supernatural, and his emotions. He is clearly dealing with the supernatural in the form of Mephisto, the devil, but he constantly comes back to those natural elements, and it's obvious how strongly they affect him emotionally. Is it possible that this is him trying to show that he is still trying to be human and good, another example of his internal conflict between good and evil?
PS Sorry for posting this morning, my internet wouldn't work last night!!
Mikaela-
Great ideas withe the Adam and Eve connections...also think back to the inscription in the young scholar's book. I guess knowledge does always have a consequence, a nd sometimes a negative one. Also, interesting quotes about worlds...in a way, reminds me of Miranda's "oh brave new world" quote. Both she and Faust stood on the edge of new worlds being opened to them.
Kayleigh- great ideas on nature, supernatural, and emotion in Faust. You selected some beautiful quotes!
Sarah- interesting connections with light/dark to Marg...how she begins inthe light of innocence and ends in the dark of dungeon facing execution...murder, guilt, insanity, oh my.
Katie- love the connections to Odysseus's trip to the underworld. Interesting that Odysseus sees Medusa there right before he flees- and so does Faust. Perhaps this is not a coincidence?
Ambika- Walpurgis as social commentary and the crickets connection- those old bugs are back again. Very good.
Finally, Matt, good idea about this not just being a story of a great man's downfall, but of the evil in all of mankind.
Ms. Coppens
Post a Comment