For this section I would like you to go deep into your analysis and personal response. Think about how conflicts and characterization are developed, motifs that are repeated, connections with other texts, and Romantic Elements.
There are many small sections within these pages. These include:
Auerbach's Cellar in Leipzig
Witch's Kitchen
A Street
Evening
A Walk
Neighbor's House
A Street
In Martha's Garden
A Summer House
Forest and Cavern
Margareta's Room
When you log on to do your blog response, I'd like you to take the NEXT section. For example, if the previous post is about "A Walk" do yours on "Neighbor's House." Please write the name of the section at the top of your response. Then, in the response, dig into your section. What's important? What's interesting? Include a few quotes...
Finally, in a separate comment, I'd also like you to respond to, build off of, argue against (whatever) one (or more) of your peers' original responses.
Please remember to sign your name after each comment! You should have a total of two postings!
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19 comments:
"Auerbach's Cellar in Leipzig"
This is a funny scene in a tavern where Mephistopheles takes Faust to see "convivial society" (103). Basically there's lots of rowdy drinking, spilling, singing, and joking around- normal stuff until the devil and Faust head in to join the party.
I think this is supposed to be funny on lots of levels- first of all, just the common guys and their pranks, blubbering, and drinking songs are pretty silly. Then it goes a step further when they drunkenly decide to play pranks on the two strangers; of course the joke's on them because they're messing with the devil in disguise. You know Mephisto's not going to lose when it comes to this kind of rabble-rousing. He pulls out a song that's way better than any of the drunks', then he does a crazy trick where he draws wine- any kind of wine a person desires- from a table (oh, and when the wine spills it turns to fire), and finally he and Faust ride off on a flying keg barrel.
I think the most interesting part of the scene is Mephisto's drinking song about the king's flea dressed in the most expensive silks, and becoming "minister of state / and all his poor relations / were placed among the great" (105). I can't help but think that every time satan speaks of insects he's also refering to humans (like the chirping cricket from the beginning of the play). It also seems that the drunk men are acting like irritating fleas who eventually get grabbed, caught, nipped and cracked, like the fleas ultimately do by the higher power of humans.
Overall I liked this scene because of the fantastical elements and magic- Faust got out of the house, Mephisto showed off what he can do (perhaps showing Faust that betting his soul was worth the price), and the good and bad sides of partying (mostly bad- hangovers, acting like an idiot, etc.) were shown.
-Ms. Coppens
(next person do "Witch's Kitchen")
Oh- I have more...
I forgot to write about the parallels I saw with The Tempest. Not only is there drinking that makes people act and look like idiots in both plays, but each group of drunks is unknowingly up against a higher supernatural power- it's impossible for them to win and the drinking makes it even worse. Drinking seems to exacerbate the faults of base humanity.
I think that there is also a class commentary in both plays- people strive (and fail) to be more than what they are. This correlates with the humans as insects motif- perhaps the ultimate "class system" is humans being lower than God or gods, yet aspiring to gain that omniscient power.
-Ms. Coppens
"The Witch's Kitchen"
This is a great scene that I loved because it furthered Faust's journey into, well, reality. He had been so consumed with his studies, locked up in his room, that all the things he is seeing (the drunken men and now the witch's kitchen) frighten and astound him. And his reaction really shows his naive-ness.
I particularly like the monkeys in this section. They speak in verse previously associated with magical incantations, which I think might be done to signify both the magical and mystical qualities of animals (especially talking ones) and the fact that they are either on par with or above humans in some form or another. This point is driven home when Faust says of the monkeys, "Revolting beasts, unequaled anywhere" (112). However, the only thing remotely revolting about the monkeys lies in their incredibly frank speech. They are exceedingly human-like in their desires and impulses (such as greed (112)). Though Faust never seems to recognize the intellectual beauty of the monkeys, Mephisto states, indicating the animals, "These are the genuine poets of the day" (115).
When the witch comes in, Goethe adds a bit of humor by having the witch recognize her master Mephisto (116). However, though its Mephisto who leads the woman to make the connection, I thought it was odd (and very Harry Potter like) that he didn't want her to call him by his real name (Satan) (117). My favorite line during this part is when Mephisto says, "And yet mankind has failed to benefit-/ The Evil One banned: evils prevail" (117).
Of course another interesting part of this scene is when Faust becomes fascinated with the mirror, both before and after drinking the potion. I kind of picture it as a mirror of Erised. I thought it was interesting that Faust can only see the woman in the mirror if he's standing in just the right spot. I took this to mean that there are several different paths he could take in his life, all which will lead to different spots, and in one certain spot he will find himself with his perfect woman. I think the woman in the mirror also shows that Faust is finally coming out of his shell of books and his eternal quest for knowledge and is finally beginning to live, or desire to live, in the real world.
My absolute favorite passage from this section is when Mephisto tells Faust the secret to being young. On 111 Mephisto says, "Good. Here's Nature's recipe,/ Without a doctor, gold or sorcery:/ Begin at once a life of open air,/ To dig and trench and cultivate the ground,/ Content yourself with the common round,/ And for your dinner have the homeliest fare./ Live with the beasts, one equal terms; be sure/ That, where you reap, your hands must spread the dung./ And there, my friend, you have the certain cure,/ By which at eighty years you sill are young."
This is a fantastic quote, because Mephisto is sharing the secrets of the universe with Faust, but, because its something so simple, Faust doesn't recognize the power of Mephisto's simple approach.
-Victoria
"A Street"
Just before this section of the book starts, Faust drinks a witch's potion and Mephisto says, "A dose like that within your guts, my boy,/ and every other wench is Helen of Troy" (120). I bring this up just because Faust meets Margareta in this chapter and is intantly obsessed. This quote was weird because as I interpreted it, it meant that Faust would fall deeply in love with the next women he met (which he did) because after all, the entire Trojan war was fought over a princes love of Helen of Troy. The weird thing is that the rest of "The Witch's Kitchen" seemed to suggest that the potion would make other women fall in love with Faust (I think the potion was supposed to make Faust look younger or something).
Anyhoo, Faust meets Margareta and asks Mephisto to "win her" for him (121). Mephisto says he can't because she has just been to confession and is too innocent for the devil to hold sway over, but Faust doesn't take no for an answer. What I found interesting hear is that, unless I'm mistaken, Faust wasthinking about raping Margareta. This surprised me because up until now Faust has been a relatively moral guy (except for making a pact with the devil I guess, but everyone gets one muligan). The rape seemed to start to become apparent when Faust said, "I wouldn't ask the devil for assistance/ to overcome the little thing's resistance" (122). This quote could have meant a number of things, but next Mephisto says stuff like, "But I advise a strategy more steady,/ for what's the good of snatching at your joy?" (122). It's pretty ironic that the devil is trying to convince Faust not to rape Margareta (that is if my interpretation is correct).
The section ends when Mephisto agrees to help Faust woo Margareta and leaves in search of a gift for her.
-Drew M.
I think Drew makes an interesting point (and I loved the irony). I agree that Faust may be wanting to have Margareta rather forcefully... Mephisto says "Quite like a rake of Paris, Sir, already!" (122) and rake basically means womanizer (according to dictionary.com). I thought it was also interesting how Mephisto argues against Faust's plan, and advocates for what seems to be having Faust actually fall in love with Margareta/Gretchen. Of course, judging from Mephisto's previous actions, one could argue that having Faust fall in love is Mephisto's master plan; in the witch's house Mephisto makes Faust younger and passionate, and is pleased at Faust seeing a woman in the mirror, offering immediately to get him one. True, Mephisto argues against Faust just having Margareta/Gretchen, but I think he does so to advocate Faust falling in love, and therefore learning about the universe.
-Victoria
You guys are off to a fabulous start. Drew, I actually laughed out loud when you wrote of selling your soul to the devil: " but everyone gets one muligan." Hilarious.
You're right- young-looking-old Faust needs to have her right now- and rape seems to be what he wants. This is particularly disturbing (not that rape itself isn't) because I believe she may be only 13-14 years old.
Victoria- I really like your insight into the mysticism of animals. Maybe Goethe writing that the monkeys are the "These are the genuine poets of the day" he's not only lauding animals but poking fun at his contemporary poets?
-Ms. Coppens
"Evening"
Margareta leaves what I think is her bedroom, and Faust has Mephd let him in. So then Faust starts going through her stuff,and he seems to be in a state of ecstasy, shouting things like, "I tremble in my joy" (125). It almost seems kind of orgasmic (am I allowed to say that?) the pleasure he is getting from all Margareta's possessions. At least when I read it, I got the sensation that he was getting the same thrill that some people get from dirty magazines. Faust is starting to creep me out a little, though, the way he is hunting around in her bedroom, and the way he raped her before. He doesn't seem to be the same moral, urbane man I thought he was at the beginning of the play. However, this may be Goethe's attempt at a hyperbolization (if that is even a word) of how crazy people can get when they are in love.
Meph leaves a "casket, good and heavy" (125) filled with jewels for Margareta (At first I was like, whoa, talk about creepy, leaving a casket, but when I looked it up, I found out that casket is also a word for a small decorative box to hold valuables in, which makes much better sense, just in case you all were wondering, too). Meph and Faust leave, and Margareta comes back in to find this little present, and is pleasantly surprised. She finds the jewels in it, and tries them on, and as Meph had anticipated, "a girl's a girl, and fair is fair" (125) and Margareta thinks that the "trinkets" are just wonderful, but she thinks that they are just someone else's and she stumbled upon them (even though they were in her trunk).
~Alyssa Bacon
Victoria, I love how you start off your comment saying that the witch's kitchen "furthered Faust's journey into...reality" because the farther he gets into this journey, the more SURreal it all seems, so I'm just wondering what makes you think it seems more real.
I was also intrigued when you were talking about the monkeys' human qualities and cited greed as a prime example. It made me wonder, do you think that they could be an embodiment of the seven deadly sins? I'm not overly familiar with the teachings of the Bible, but I know that some of these sins are greed and gluttony, which I believe the monkeys are guilty of, and they ARE affiliated with the devil. Just something to think about.
~Alyssa Bacon
In regards to Drew's post about "A street" i really thought it was a great interpretation. At first i didn't quite catch on, but when i read back to that section, and refenced to the specific quotes, it really opened my eyes to this deeper meaner which Drew brought to the table. I dont know how obvious it may be to some, but i'm really glad he rbought it up and i enjoye dthe insights because it was something i soemwhat neglected to notice, and let Faust's love of Margarita steel my full attention
"a neighbors house"
Also, in response to Drew's post, in this section there was a specific quote stated by Margarita saying "Content to treat me rough and raw, and leave me lonely on the straw. and yet god knows, i never crossed him, but loved him well, and now i've lost him." (130) in this quote it becomes apparent that Faust has been treating Maragarita coldly, and it appears as thought when she says "content to treat her rough and raw, and leave me lonely on the straw" she is referring to sex, or some physical activity. in turn, it seems as though that is all taht faust wants, even though she is madly in love with him and hurt by his cruelty towards her and disrespect.
It also surprises me how deeply in love with Faust Margarita is, and it feels as if she is letting her emotions get the besst of her, especially since she was recently in such woe.
When Meph comes into the scene, he is very cunning and sneaky. it amazes me how he still uses the trick of flattery and jewelery to lure a woman, he knows Margaritas weak spots, and tries to get close ot her through flattery.
a good example of this is when Meph says : "she has an air, a glance so bright, a man must count it a delight, to be allowed to linger near." (132)
However, after Meph is so pleasant, he contrastingly kills the mood by telling Martha of her husband's death, which scares Margerita who says "so say i may never love, in fearful dread: my heart would break if that my love were dead." (132) -- it also seems like maybe Meph is trying to scare Margerita out of love so that neither ehr nor Faust get too attached to eachother. Meph also tries to come off as the good guy, by giving advice to martha about her late husband, and when she should seek a new mate. the more he talks to these girls, the more he builds their trust, and the closer he can get to deceiving them.
Neighbor's House
This section begins with Margereta and her neighbor, Martha, talking about whether Martha's husband has "breathed his parying breath" (130). Martha is pretty shaken at the thought but Margereta tries to comfort her. Then they here a rattling at the door and low and behold it is Mephisto popping by for a visit. He enters in a solumn mood and states "with Martha Schwertlein i would speak"(131). Mephisto flatters Marge and complements her jewelry, but also states "Tis not the jewelry alone; she has an air, a glance so bright"(132). Mephisto tells Martha of her husbands death, understandably she is rather sad about this, but she soon asks about if he left her anything of value-"What! Not a lucky florin? Not a ring?"(133). Martha keeps asking for more and more information about her husbands last days and about rpoof that he is indeed dead. Meanwhile, Mephisto is answering her questions but it also slipping in questions to Marge about marriage and love. Seems to me like Mephisto is tryin to hook up his new friend. Martha then says how she wants her husbands death to be certified, and Mephisto says it can be done as long as he has two witnesses(himself and Faust). Mephisto says he willl bring Faust and they will meet up behind the house, Mephisto makes sure that Marge will be coming.
Overall a strong scene in my opinion. New characters are emerging and i think that they will have a vital role in the rest of the story. I also liked how Goethe gave us a little ack ground with the death of her husband to introduce the new chracters. i think Mephisto has some bigger plans for Marge though.
Matthew Fitch
I totally agree with what Alyssa was saying about Faust and him searching through the room. As i was reading this i was like wow i must be getting the wrong picture cause this is creeepy, but now that i see others agree with me im much happier. I think Goethe is trying to show how every man must have flaws. Faust is so smart and so consumed with knowledge, but women is a topic he clearly knows little about.
Also i was interested when Mephisto left the jewels in her room and im glad Alyssa also talked about that. It was also good in the next section when Maphisto complements her on the same jewels that he gave her. Maybe Mephisto is simply half devil and haf cupid and this is all part of his match making skills between Marge and Faust.
Matthew Fitch
"A Walk"
(pg. 128-13)
So I have the greatest connetion to another text EVER! (It's probably only awesome to me ahah). So on pg. 129 Meph is talking about Margareta's mother took away the case of jewels that Margareta found becuase she felt it went against the mother's strict Christian beliefs. Meph says "To Blessed Mary shall the jewels be given, / And she will send us manna down from heaven." I read that and I was like "manna, manna", hmm that sounds familiar. I figured I should look up what manna means for you guys, so I read on dictionary.com that it means "the food miraculously supplied to the Israelites in the wilderness" or "divine or spiritual food." When I read that I was like OMG! because I am reading The Secret Life of Bees right now, and the women in that book are very very spiritual, and they are constantly eating a seeds-and-honey granola mix that they call "manna"! And even better, the entire book is about how the women's hero is the "Blessed Mary"!! So cool, huh? Hahaha.
That said, here is a quick summary: Meph is lamenting the fact that the case of jewels was taken away from Margareta by her mother because she feels it is the Christian thing to do. According to Meph, the mother said "'My child, be sure ill-gotten wealth / Will snare the soul, and undermine the health'" (129). He says that the preist came and agreed that she should give up the jewels; then he takes them for his own benefit. Margareta is said to be miserable-- she "sits in discontent / Unwilling to resign or to resent" (130) and dreams of who left her the casket. Faust, who is troubled by Margareta's misery, orders Meph to get him new jewels and to "visit her neighbor" (130).
There were several quotes here that made me laugh out loud and are full of irony:
Meph says, "I'd have the devil take me instantly, / Only it happens I myself am he" (128) -- what an ironic meeting of the devil and his "morality".
Faust says "Is this a play, or have you lost your wits? / The madman is a part your talent fits" (128) -- Besides the irony, this reminded me of the end of the Tempest when Prospero comes and out refers to how the audience is watching a play.
Meph says, referring to the preist, "He sweeps the board of pendants, bracelets, ring, / Just like a woman with her shopping-things" (129) -- Haha! So even back then, the image of the greedy shopaholic woman was commonplace.
-Sarah
Tor, you didn't think I would read your comment referencing Harry Potter and not comment on it, did you? Haha. What I found most intriguing is the connection to the Mirror of Erised from HP1 that we both noticed in class and you mentioned here. I agree that it is a parallel-- he sees what he wants most (women) in the mirror. And I think that when you say, "I think the woman in the mirror also shows that Faust is finally coming out of his shell of books and his eternal quest for knowledge and is finally beginning to live, or desire to live, in the real world", it makes a lot of sense.
However, part of that parallel between women and what he 'really wants' and what makes him 'finally begin to live in the real world' troubles me because I feel like it somewhat contradicts the concept of Faust's "2 souls" that he mentions on pg. 67. He says "The one has passion's carving crude for love, / And hugs a world where sweet the sense rage; / The other longs for pastures fair above, / Leaving the murk for lofty heritage." I think what you say about him living in the real world works with that-- women is the realistic desire comapred to "leaving the murk for lofty heritage." However, I really feel like the 2nd soul is more of what he REALLY wants. His eternal conquest is to bring his knowledge, mind, and soul to higher and higher grounds...and with that so, I don't think that seeing a women in the Mirror is the thing his heart truly most desires.
-Sarah
"A Walk"
This scene takes place right after Mephisto has spoken with Martha and Margareta, informing them that he and Faust will visit them that night. Mephisto meets up with Faust in the street to tell him the plan, which is of course that they have the chance to visit the two women, as long as Faust can keep the story going that Martha's husband has died. Faust has a serious problem with lying about this, but eventually consents at the end of the scene, saying, "So come, I view this chatter with disgust, / And bow to you, simple because I must."
I think this last line (in addition to the ones above it) start to show a little frustration with Mephisto on Faust's part. When Faust tells him that he has a problem with lying to the two women, Mephisto asks him, "Have you not played the learned chanticleer / Concerning God and universal themes / And man and all his inmost thoughts and dreams?" Faust later replies, "When heart and soul I range the earth / To find a lofty word of worth, / And still the same / Answer return,- / I burn, I burn / Eternally: / Is this then empty sophistry / And just a devil's game?" This brings us to the end of the scene, and I think this quote really helps to show both Faust's frustration with Mephisto beginning, but also his internal conflict between good and evil, or love and lust. He knows he doesn't want to lie to get the girl he's supposedly in love with (though at this point, it may just be lust), because even earlier in the book he told Wagner to be honest in everything he did. However, Mephisto's temptation proves to be too much for Faust in this case, and he ends up giving into his lust and into evil.
-Kayleigh
So I was reading Tor's response and I want to see if I can push that mirror of Erised analogy even further. When Faust looks in the mirror, he sees a woman. When witches and wizards look in the mirror of Erised, they see what they desire most in the world. Now I do think the situation with Faust is a little bit different then Harry Potter because I got the feeling that the mirror was kind of causing Faust to desire women. However, I still think the situation in Harry Potter is similar enough that we can use it to learn about Faust.
In Harry Potter, the thing that people most desire can be love-related (a.k.a. Harry getting his parent's back) or it can be riches/success (the Ron Weasely story) or it can even be socks. I think the same idea applies to Faust. Is he a Harry Potter or a Ron Weasely? If Faust is a Potter then he's looking for love, but if not he's looking more for lust/passion (not exactly what Ron was after but you get the point). I think Ms. Coppens talked about this idea in class. Since we only know that Faust saw a woman in the mirror we can't be 100% which it is. I got the feeling that Faust is looking for this odd combination of both (even though I wrote that Faust thought about raping Margareta, I also think he loves her---kind of a creepy idea).
Now, in Harry Potter Dumbledore told Harry not to look in the mirror any more because people had gone mad doing so and because it wasn't real. Can this idea translate to Faust? Mrs. Berger always used to say that literature hasn't changed over thousands of years, so we have to try to make it fit. Again, this scenario is a little different because Faust isn't wasting his life in front of the mirror, he is going out and living it. However, the feelings that are brought out by the mirror could still be Faust's downfall. If the mirror is specifically supposed to represent lust, then Goethe could be saying that lust would let Voldemort (I mean Mephistopheles) win. Who knows, maybe Goethe was even saying that love will lead to Faust's downfall (that was basically how it worked for Harry, if he hadn't let his parents go, Voldemort would have won many times over). Then again, there is a third idea that Tor metioned in response to my response. This idea is completely independent from the love-lust question, it is just that Mephistopheles is sucking Faust into his master plan.
So this entire response was clearly a stretch and I'm not sure I really responded to Tor as much as I did to J.K. Rowling, but I think this comparison did at least show that women are in someway going to lead to Faust's downfall (one might say Margareta has already).
-Drew McGlincy
I think Mikaela really accurately captures what Mephisto is doing to both Faust and Margareta. The fact that he tricked her with jewelry, etc. not only shows that he's aware of her weaknesses, but I think it might also just show that he fully knows the (sometimes brutal) truth of human nature. He, being the devil, is very aware of how greedy and jealous, etc., people can get, and how quickly and easily this happens.
Also, in response to Mephisto trying to scare Margareta off the idea of marriage- I'm not too sure if he's actually being a good person here, or if the reason behind his attempted prevention of their relationship (and whatever Faust chooses to do to Margareta) is that he knows that if he lets Faust experience all of it, Faust, a mature and intelligent man, will tire of it quickly. And, if he realizes that this isn't what he's looking for, then Mephisto will be forced to try something else to satisfy him until Faust gives him his soul.
-Kayleigh
So the main theme that really stood out to me was the innocence of margareta- its mentioned multiple times throughout the play. i agree with Drew and Victoria- Faust has certainly changed from the man we met in the second scene. he is willing to rape a girl of her "innocence." When reading the play all i could think of was Wordsworth's Nutting.
Meph says "There speaks the lad that plays the libertine/and thinks he has a right to every flower/knowing no grace or honourable name/beyond his reach, to pluck it and devour;/it often cant be done, sir, all the same." (121-122) The comparison of marga’s innocence to the flower reminded me of the nut before it was plucked.
I agree with Alyssa and Matt that Faust really really really enjoys being in Marga’s room. There is a wicked long quote on p.124 from Faust “Now, welcome…perfect happiness” it is Faust’s description of Marga’s untouched room. The way he describes it reminded me of the way Wordsworth described the forest and the perfection of the area where he picked the nuts. It was so pure and perfect.
sorry i picked some of the most sexual aspects to comment on. i dont like how "Nutting" ruined nature for me forever. thank you ms. coppens.
“In Martha's Garden”
So Martha’s Garden is a sickening scene between Faust & Marga with some Meph & Marth thrown in. They flirt and what not/ do every typical middle-schoolers-in-love thing they can imagine- including Marga picking petals off a daisy to see if Faust loves her (p.143), and Marga running away so Faust can run after. Faust calls Marga everything from “my dove” to “my angel.” Marga begins to open up to Faust and he learns a lot about her past in this section. It is obvious they are falling in love. Meph and Martha can see it clearly (p.144). They too spend the act talking together.
This section is important because Faust is falling deeper into Meph’s trap. He is in love, and love makes life worth living- thus losing the bet. It is also interesting when he says "sweet child, the heavenly powers/ are talking to you with the tongue of flowers" (143) because God isnt arranging their love- like matt said- the devil is "playing cupid".
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